Getting to Yes, And

Jennifer Moss: The Burnout Epidemic


Jennifer Moss

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Kelly dedicates this show to his boss as he connects with Journalist Jennifer Moss whose new book is called  “The Burnout Epidemic: The Rise of Chronic Stress and How We Can Fix It.”

One of the things you discuss in the book is that burnout isn’t just about workers, it’s also a drain on leaders in business.

“This has been a problem for a long time, a culture of overwork, the legacy of discrimination inside of certain industries where we see issues with lack of fairness and lack of agency. All of these things, these root causes of burnout, have been around for centuries. So when you think about it only being about the employee it's impossible because leaders are in this strange position between their bosses where they have to answer to the expectations that are higher on them and then also remain stoic and look like they've got it all together for their staff.”

You also note that generationally, work has changed and we can’t ignore burnout.

“Employers that are stepping up, I say this is the uber taxi moment because they're the ones that are going to disrupt - it's paradigm shifting right now and employees are in charge. And if they want to  remain competitive, they're going to have to stand up and realize that a priority for us now is that our mental health and our well being at work is fundamental.”

I like how you also talk about the hierarchy of needs shouldn’t be separate from the workplace.

“Fundamentally as individuals In life why wouldn't we need those same expectations at work? And we can't separate those two anymore, you know, and I say it's not about work life balance, it's about work life boundaries. And we need to create these spaces and understand that we are human 24 hours of the day, whether we're at work or whether we're at home.or whether those two are together. And so understanding is that there is a hierarchy of needs to also be assessed inside of workplaces.”

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